Author Topic: Level 4 Autonomy  (Read 26236 times)

Eagle

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Re: Level 4 Autonomy
« Reply #90 on: November 22, 2017, 03:45:50 PM »
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PonoBill

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Re: Level 4 Autonomy
« Reply #91 on: November 22, 2017, 06:19:34 PM »
It's about time. Most of the planned taxi multicopters are 6 or more rotors. A good thing since it allows failure without crashing. A multicopter with more than four rotors can maintain stability. I built an octocopter that could lose four motors and still land under control and a hexacopter that could lose two and still fly--slowly.

Electric multicopter Air Taxis could deliver passengers at something in the realm of limousine rates. Uber published an interesting cost analysis that I can't seem to find.
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Eagle

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Re: Level 4 Autonomy
« Reply #92 on: November 22, 2017, 08:17:55 PM »
"Uber Elevate will be price competitive with Uber X when it launches. That’s right: if you pick the right destination, you could ride in a VTOL aircraft for the same price as being ferried around in a hipster’s Prius."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidvinjamuri/2017/11/09/flying-cars-are-no-joke-for-uber/#354789912600

But remains to be seen if all gets done.  Maybe.
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Re: Level 4 Autonomy
« Reply #93 on: November 24, 2017, 03:59:16 PM »
According to 2018 CR the Tesla was 94% would buy again.  Then the Vette next at 91%.  911 was at 88%.  The Compass was 42% and Patriot 50%.

Overall based on average reliability score Toyota was #1.  Porsche #13 Chevy #18 Jeep #20 Tesla #21.

But here is another take on these numbers from a few years ago.

"These are very different kinds of vehicles, but with one big thing in common: None of them are especially big sellers. That's because they're all niche products that sell to ardent fans, the kind of folks who will tell you that they'd hate to be driving anything else. Mainstream models don't score quite as high because their buyers aren't as emotionally invested in them."

https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/12/09/why-tesla-motors-high-customer-satisfaction-rating.aspx

Tesla is just getting started.  They have delivered about 250,000 cars since 2012.  The rate is escalating, although at a frustrating rate.  There certainly is an excitement of being part of something new and it is a very small sample but all the same, the cars are fantastic and they do inspire a genuine wow from anyone who gets in or takes a close look.  Tiny #'s against the likes of a Toyota (at 7.25 Million cars a year) but I do believe the satisfaction is real.  Early days.

Eagle

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Re: Level 4 Autonomy
« Reply #94 on: November 24, 2017, 07:45:21 PM »
Yeah the elec car is interesting vs IC or Hybrid or Volt generator.

Just got back from test driving a Bolt with my wife.  Very novel approach to a car.  Size inside does not jive with its tiny size outside.  Would be a good option for someone living in the city as it is very compact to park.  Also was told the Volt would be the right option for longer trips -> which was my suspicion.

He noted any Chevy dealer can fix the Bolt whereas the Tesla has to go back to a single repair shop here in Van. Is supposed to take 60 hrs @ 110 and 9 hrs @ 220 to charge provided your 220 dryer is not on.

Driving and handling were kinda similar feeling to a normal IC car -> but it did have more torque which was expected.  Drove and felt much better than a Prius.  Thought it was ok for an elec car if that is what you wanted to drive.  But price is way more than double vs a base Corolla or Civic or Mazda 3 etc.  So the break-even point is a very long time down the line.  If prices can be competitive in the future w/o incentives -> can see this being popular.  Otherwise not so much.  Do add about $2k for 220 charging at home.  Price gets up there.

So going elec is not cheap.  But it does cut smog etc.  Would be good if they recycle the Li Ion battery.  Would recommend taking one out for a spin.  Yeah interesting.
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Eagle

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Re: Level 4 Autonomy
« Reply #95 on: November 25, 2017, 10:04:24 AM »
This is a fair rep vid.  But def do need to install free fast charge stations in all Chevy dealerships.  That will really help stretch range.  Will not appeal to peeps buying a new car under $20k.  But someone willing to spend around $40k w/incentives.  Here in BC the incentive is a paltry $5k.  The big selling point for Chev made very clear by the salesman was -> you can drive off the lot with the car today.

http://www.chevrolet.ca/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle.html

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Eagle

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Re: Level 4 Autonomy
« Reply #96 on: November 25, 2017, 05:28:03 PM »
"Daddy Get Me a Baker".  Skip to 3:10 to see "a revolutionary car in its day".  Apparently very popular with fashionable women.

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Re: Level 4 Autonomy
« Reply #97 on: November 26, 2017, 08:15:47 AM »
This is a fair rep vid.  But def do need to install free fast charge stations in all Chevy dealerships.  That will really help stretch range.  Will not appeal to peeps buying a new car under $20k.  But someone willing to spend around $40k w/incentives.  Here in BC the incentive is a paltry $5k.  The big selling point for Chev made very clear by the salesman was -> you can drive off the lot with the car today.

The average car price is 25K.  Compacts and subcompacts are significantly less.  Realistically the higher priced Teslas (starting at 70K and 90K) are not an consideration for most of those potential buyers, the Bolt falls short on perceived value at 2X a comparable conventional fuel option and the 3 is essentially unavailable.


PonoBill

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Re: Level 4 Autonomy
« Reply #98 on: November 26, 2017, 09:09:10 AM »
It's not easy to swap out an existing infrastructure, especially attempting to do so in multiple dimensions. I'm surprised that things are progressing as fast as they have. The incredible reservation rate for the model three shows a remarkable readiness in a large part of the population, but fulfilling that kind of demand in a shorter timeframe than the one we're experiencing is probably impossible. Absent that market demand, the introduction of the 3 would barely be newsworthy and the current rollout rate would be acceptable--even praiseworthy.

The multidimensional aspect is pretty remarkable. Tesla is starting delivery of the three, at the same time that they completed supplying Southern Australia with a massive powerwall in 100 days ( http://fortune.com/2017/11/23/elon-musk-australia-battery-50-million-bet/ ) and built the Kuai powerwall and solar farm that in conjunction with home solar, utility solar, and wind plants on Kuai is now supplying 90 percent of its power (https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/8/14854858/tesla-solar-hawaii-kauai-kiuc-powerpack-battery-generator ) and completed a massive powerwall energy peaking plant in Ontario, California. The batteries for those two projects would have blown up lithium battery production, made model three production impossible, and spiked the price, except it all came from the gigafactory, which is ramping production rapidly. Lithium battery prices declined 70 percent over the last 18 months.

At the same time (2017) the supercharger network more than doubled and the destination charging network tripled.

I think Tesla is about to become the worlds largest utility.
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Eagle

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Re: Level 4 Autonomy
« Reply #99 on: November 26, 2017, 09:33:15 AM »
Yeah that is the knock on electrics.  Perceived and actual value.  The Gen 2 Leaf might capture more interest with just enough range if priced below $30k.  When and if prices get down to $20k -> the elecs will push IC hard towards Dodo land.  Until then expect the smog veh to be around while OPEC gets rid of their vast supplies.

“In just a few years, EVs have gone from being completely unaffordable, impractical and not particularly nice, to representing a valid option for a niche pool of customers,” OPEC said.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/31/16069960/tesla-model-3-not-luxury-car-options-model-s

http://business.financialpost.com/commodities/energy/opec-sees-slower-growth-in-demand-for-its-oil-as-rivals-pump-more
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Re: Level 4 Autonomy
« Reply #100 on: November 27, 2017, 04:13:31 AM »
It's not easy to swap out an existing infrastructure, especially attempting to do so in multiple dimensions. I'm surprised that things are progressing as fast as they have. The incredible reservation rate for the model three shows a remarkable readiness in a large part of the population, but fulfilling that kind of demand in a shorter timeframe than the one we're experiencing is probably impossible. Absent that market demand, the introduction of the 3 would barely be newsworthy and the current rollout rate would be acceptable--even praiseworthy.

The multidimensional aspect is pretty remarkable. Tesla is starting delivery of the three, at the same time that they completed supplying Southern Australia with a massive powerwall in 100 days ( http://fortune.com/2017/11/23/elon-musk-australia-battery-50-million-bet/ ) and built the Kuai powerwall and solar farm that in conjunction with home solar, utility solar, and wind plants on Kuai is now supplying 90 percent of its power (https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/8/14854858/tesla-solar-hawaii-kauai-kiuc-powerpack-battery-generator ) and completed a massive powerwall energy peaking plant in Ontario, California. The batteries for those two projects would have blown up lithium battery production, made model three production impossible, and spiked the price, except it all came from the gigafactory, which is ramping production rapidly. Lithium battery prices declined 70 percent over the last 18 months.

At the same time (2017) the supercharger network more than doubled and the destination charging network tripled.

I agree with almost all of that, except the 3 rollout rate.  It is a few hundred cars so far.  They expected to be at 20,000 a month by now.  I am sure they will get it straightened out.

The Nissan Leaf has surprisingly sold the most vehicles at 283,000 now.  Interesting that the range is 150 miles for 2018.  That is way up but still short for a lot of uses. 

If you look at the current options you can see the "not yet" argument for each (to varying degrees).  This is going to look a whole lot different in a couple years.

http://www.plugincars.com/cars?field_isphev_value_many_to_one=pure+electric




PonoBill

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Re: Level 4 Autonomy
« Reply #101 on: November 30, 2017, 07:24:25 AM »
From the price Tesla is offering the Tesla Semi to those companies that commit now, it looks like they expect to have batteries at about $70 per kilowatt. That's another 50 percent decrease in cost and would make the models S, X and 3 very profitable at their current price.

The powerwall I'm building for my GMC coach is costing me about $80/KW for LiFePO4 batteries, but they are surplus batteries in an unpopular size (2665).

Incidentally, any of you geeks would love the IOT stuff I'm doing in Maui in preparation for installing it in Fritz. Most system stuff (lights, AC, heater, air jacks, Generator, etc.) and most instrumentation of non-engine stuff (tank levels, solar performance, battery levels, etc.) is IOT controlled by an echo dot connected to the internet by a Verizon Jetpack MiFi system. I'll shoot some video when I have the time. I've used the tech to control the garage doors in Maui by "garage Alexa" and cellphone. Diane loves it, no more hunting for remotes.

80 percent of the stuff is just off the shelf with a little configuration. The rest is IOT shields or dirt-cheap ESP8266 modules and micro Arduinos and a little code. The stuff is getting very cool and very cheap. No more hubs required for home automation, just Alexa skills and cloud-based integration.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 07:35:30 AM by PonoBill »
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Eagle

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Re: Level 4 Autonomy
« Reply #102 on: November 30, 2017, 01:32:28 PM »
If you look at the current options you can see the "not yet" argument for each (to varying degrees).  This is going to look a whole lot different in a couple years.

A friend just got this plug-in hybrid due to range anxiety.  They also have an XC90.  But have another with the Model S and Subaru and GMC truck.  So most peeps are not all pure elec save the planet.  More maybe check what the fuss is.

"Volvo's excellent Pilot Assist II adaptive cruise control works well in stop-and-go traffic, bringing the car to a complete stop with a brief pause before disengaging, and it keeps the car centered in its lane when on the move. It can't handle twisty roads and still requires you to keep your hands on the wheel ....."

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/auto/2018-volvo-xc60-t8/preview/

Can see autonomous for mundane stop and go.  But not for twisty fun driving.  Yesterday took out a stick WRX and found it very fun -> but the car had too much turbo lag.  So was disappointing that way.  Def needs an update at the lower end and put on to the SGP.  Basically feels long in the tooth at this point.

No doubt will be interesting to see the new cars coming out the next few years.  Puts one in a good position if in the market but not in a rush.  Am expecting a lot of new options for sure.
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Eagle

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Re: Level 4 Autonomy
« Reply #103 on: November 30, 2017, 05:09:17 PM »
Would have thought there was enough expertise to build the Model 3 as planned.  But the cost at $35k simply might just be too low.  Can see why costlier optioned units at $50k+ have the priority.  Will be interesting to see if Elon can get this sorted in the next few months.  He seems to be taking full responsibility for the delays and not meeting his production expectations.

We had to rewrite all of the software from scratch,” Musk said, adding that they’d redone “about 20 to 30 man years of software in four weeks” for the battery module.

http://fortune.com/2017/11/01/tesla-elon-musk-model-3-earnings/

For a March report called “Beyond the Hype,” J.D. Power found creaks, scratches and poor door alignment on new Model S and Model X vehicles, issues it blamed on the company’s lack of manufacturing experience. The overall quality of Tesla vehicles, it concluded, was “not competitive” within the luxury segment, lacking “precision and attention to detail.”

Such sloppiness is a rarity in luxury brands such as Mercedes-Benz (DAIGn.DE) and BMW (BMWG.DE), said Kathleen Rizk, director of global automotive consulting at J.D. Power.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-quality-insight/build-fast-fix-later-speed-hurts-quality-at-tesla-some-workers-say-idUKKBN1DT0N3
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Eagle

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Re: Level 4 Autonomy
« Reply #104 on: December 01, 2017, 04:23:34 PM »
The breakeven for a 2018 Civic vs a Bolt base and optioned is 14-20 years here in BC with the EV credit based on current Hydro low and tier 2 rates.  In other regions the calcs will be different.  Until EV base prices drop -> would expect most peeps to mostly drive ICE then hybrids.

This does not factor the time value of money and principal difference invested.  Nor maintenance or insurance costs etc.
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