Quote from: Weasels wake on September 21, 2017, 10:36:59 AM

Empty seats are killing the NFL, I see 3 reasons, politics entering the game (taking a knee), owner's lack of taking the home fans seriously (teams moving), and concussions (CTE). 

The antics on the field, whether political or just juvenile displays, are merely temporary distractions and only serve to maintain interest. 

The CTE issue on the other hand seems insurmountable.  Football, as we know it, is surely doomed.

Yes.  On the one side are the people who think the stricter hitting rules are killing the game.  On the other are people who think--like ericmichaels said above--"I just don't find it as enjoyable watching them bash each other's brains in now that I know they are really bashing each other's brains."  My guess is the first group is older than the latter group, so might shrink sooner.

Then there's the group that doesn't really care what happens to NFL players, and they may not be sure how dangerous it is.  All they know is that they're going to steer their kids away from a sport that MIGHT damage their kids, like football, towards some other sport or activity.  That's the group that will affect the future.

But who knows?  Maybe the rules will change and it will become even more popular.  It seems like the kneeling stuff may be helping now, not hurting.  Nobody could have predicted any of this two weeks ago.

Obviously not many of us here on this forum are inclined to sit and watch football.  So we don't have much skin in the game. 

But there's a huge population that live for these games and the traditions involved but this player thing of being on the field for the anthem has only been a part of the game since 2009.  Before that they just came out onto the field and played ball.  So this is around a 8 year tradition??

It does seem like it could make sense to just skip the anthem.  Or think, if it makes sense to keep it for sports events, why not the symphony?  Or yoga class?  Or work?


And then think--would you want everyone at work to have to stand patriotically during the anthem every morning?  Would you want everyone at work to have to choose whether to stand or kneel? Would you want a co-worker who didn't want to stand have to debate to himself whether he should stand anyway?  Would you want to stand (even if that was your normal inclination) if your boss said he'd fire you if you didn't?  Or would you want your boss to be told by the president to fire you if you didn't stand?  If you're the boss, how would you react if the president told you to fire employees who didn't stand, and told your customers or clients to boycott your company if you didn't fire people?


99% of society has avoided all this by simply skipping the anthem before their own events.  I think it's at the point now where what a lot of people do at places where the anthem is still played is to surreptitiously scan the crowd to see who's doing what.  It also is getting to be something of a sorting tool, that reveals what camps people are in based on how they react to it, which is the opposite of what society seems to be needing right now.

But there's a huge population that live for these games and the traditions involved but this player thing of being on the field for the anthem has only been a part of the game since 2009.  Before that they just came out onto the field and played ball.  So this is around a 8 year tradition??

For reference:
1814: Francis Scott Key wrote the Star Spangled Banner, while watching the bombardment of Fort McHenry in Baltimore.
1889: Secretary of the Navy Benjamin F. Tracy called for the song to be played whenever the American flag was raised.
1916: President Woodrow Wilson signed an executive order declaring the "Star Spangled Banner" the American national anthem.
1918: The song was played spontaneously during the seventh-inning stretch of game one of the World Series between the Cubs and Red Sox, while the country had been in World War I for a year and half. After this, the song was often played on holidays or special occasions in many baseball parks.
1931: Congress passed an act officially confirming the "Star Spangled Banner" as the national anthem, and President Hebert Hoover signed it into law.
1941-42: Playing the national anthem before the start of regular season baseball games became the standard. And with the U.S. in World War II now, the National Football League also included the playing of the anthem before games.
1945: NFL commissioner Elmer Layden said, "The playing of the national anthem should be as much a part of every game as the kickoff. We must not drop it simply because the war is over. We should never forget what it stands for."
2009: NFL players began standing on the field for the national anthem before the start of primetime games. Before this, players would stay in their locker rooms except during the Super Bowl and after 9/11.
2015: Senators John McCain and Jeff Flake released a report revealing that the Department of Defense had spent $6.8 million between 2012 and 2015 on what the senators called "paid patriotism" events before professional sports games, including American flag displays, honoring of military members, reenlistment ceremonies, etc. The DoD justified the money paid to 50 professional sports teams by calling it part of their recruiting strategy. However, many teams had these ceremonies without compensation from the military, and there was nothing found in the contracts that mandated that players stand during the anthem.

Makes perfect sense to pay for the "patriotism events".  An all volunteer military means recruiting is important, and so is a supportive populace when budgets get decided. Wasn't like that when I served--the general populace didn't care much for the war, and took it out on servicepeople. I was called a babykiller while traveling in uniform (a requirement of flying military standby)--not by some hippy, but by a lady in her fifties. Nobody I knew wore a uniform in public if they didn't have to. This new lightweight patriotism is as ephemeral as that was.

And this is the crux of the matter.

I gave some shit to a guy on facebook who was ranting, and he said "This is entertainment, and I'm not entertained." First rational statement I've heard from the other viewpoint. I had to say yeah, OK, I get that.

But the song is 2 mins. and the game is 60.  If you go to a comedy show you have to put up with some dork doing an intro for at least that long.  If you're a football fan and you can't handle your sensitivities being hurt for 2 mins. ..  buy a DVR. 

If I DVR a game I'm ripping thru all that pre-game stuff including the commentators who are fantastic at astutely stating the obvious.  The kick off run back starts, then there's another commercial break and then, and not until then, do I slow the DVR to regular speed when the grunting, smashing, tackling, and pass receiving begins.  If the game is good I might last a quarter but usually pass out, because like every one on this forum, I've done some paddling.

Quote from: PonoBill on September 28, 2017, 06:38:50 PM

I gave some shit to a guy on facebook who was ranting, and he said "This is entertainment, and I'm not entertained." First rational statement I've heard from the other viewpoint. I had to say yeah, OK, I get that.

But the song is 2 mins. and the game is 60.  If you go to a comedy show you have to put up with some dork doing an intro for at least that long.  If you're a football fan and you can't handle your sensitivities being hurt for 2 mins. ..  buy a DVR. 

If I DVR a game I'm ripping thru all that pre-game stuff including the commentators who are fantastic at astutely stating the obvious.  The kick off run back starts, then there's another commercial break and then, and not until then, do I slow the DVR to regular speed when the grunting, smashing, tackling, and pass receiving begins.  If the game is good I might last a quarter but usually pass out, because like every one on this forum, I've done some paddling.

I DVR almost every game and watch them later....Sunday afternoons I have shit I want to do. A game takes a little more than an hour to watch later that night. Huge time saver and none of the BS.

All of these Hanson Bros. vids are hilarious.  Thanks

Here a good article.  Simple fact is, there's a shrinking field of players which also means a shrinking # of fans.  http://radio.wosu.org/post/shrinking-field-fewer-high-schoolers-playing-football#stream/0

  That's got some interesting thoughts.  I'd never thought of the specialization impact--kids being encouraged to specialize early on in a sport, so you play it year round, on club teams as well as school teams.  Even if you want to play a different sport each season, and the coaches allow it, you're competing for positions on teams against kids who've specialized since grade school.  And it means that while kids used to be able to try football even if it was only their third favorite sport, now you're unlikely to try it (and less likely to make the team) unless it's your #1 sport. 

Specialization might also mean that even while the number of high school football players is dropping, the likelihood of being able to make the team may not be rising much, at least in areas where football is still revered.

Parents already were discouraging their boys from playing football due to injury potential before the concussion knowledge, even when it would just be one of several sports they might play.  Now, kids' football teams have to find enough kids whose parents haven't just allowed them to play, they've also allowed them to make it their #1-focus sport, which narrows the player field even more.

It also mentions sports like cross country getting more popular.  Football is a very expensive sport in comparison (more coaches, more gear, etc.).  It also makes a lot of sense for schools to encourage sports that kids can continue into adulthood--swimming, running, tennis, etc.  Even soccer and basketball are played by adults far more than football.