I get these guys are in a potion to have their voices heard by making a statement by taking a knee, I just think it could be handled differently without creating more outrage such as what J Jones and his Cowboys did before tonight’s game, in case you missed it, the whole team interlocked arms and took a knee to show their solidarity and then they all stood together during the Anthem.

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Hell even Nascar showed everyone standing

Name one black Nascar driver, present or past.

I know, I know, I'm one of those crazy NASCAR fans that you hear so much about.

Darrell Wallace Jr. everybody calls him Bubba, which he prefers. He's a full time driver in the Xfinity series, sometimes in the Cup series as a sub., drives for Ford, can't remember the team, he didn't make the playoffs this year (the season's not over) but he's a good driver.  He might move up to the Cup series full time next year.  If any of this stuff matters, there have also been some in the past, but you can Google it if you really need to know.
Also there are many blacks on the pit crews, and believe it or not, many of them are former NFL players.  Pit crews are very strong athletes.

I don't give a fig for what NFL players do, but the moral outrage is absurd. What would any of these nuevo-patriots do if they were told everyone, including them, were required to always stand for the anthem and could be fined if they didn't? I suspect that currently a lot of people would say that's a great idea. Which means their grasp of the value of freedom is sadly lacking.

Kids are not required to take the pledge of allegiance--no one is except for freshly minted citizens. That's a much bigger deal than standing for the national anthem, which actually is just a convention, not recognized as important in any legal way. It wasn't even a consistent tradition to play the national anthem at events of any kind until after the second world war. The supreme court case that decided that is an inspiring opinion. When I mentioned that recently a person I previously considered to be not an idiot said "Yet another ACLU assault on democracy." The opinion dates from 1940. The wikipedia entry is a good one.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette

Well there we have it. Cogent and clear.

I don't give a fig for what NFL players do, but the moral outrage is absurd. What would any of these nuevo-patriots do if they were told everyone, including them, were required to always stand for the anthem and could be fined if they didn't? I suspect that currently a lot of people would say that's a great idea. Which means their grasp of the value of freedom is sadly lacking.

Kids are not required to take the pledge of allegiance--no one is except for freshly minted citizens. That's a much bigger deal than standing for the national anthem, which actually is just a convention, not recognized as important in any legal way. It wasn't even a consistent tradition to play the national anthem at events of any kind until after the second world war. The supreme court case that decided that is an inspiring opinion. When I mentioned that recently a person I previously considered to be not an idiot said "Yet another ACLU assault on democracy." The opinion dates from 1940. The wikipedia entry is a good one.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette

Read that article, then click on the link in it (or below) to "Bellamy Salute".  Weird to see the photos:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

Quote from: PonoBill on September 25, 2017, 06:47:37 PM

I don't give a fig for what NFL players do, but the moral outrage is absurd. What would any of these nuevo-patriots do if they were told everyone, including them, were required to always stand for the anthem and could be fined if they didn't? I suspect that currently a lot of people would say that's a great idea. Which means their grasp of the value of freedom is sadly lacking.

Kids are not required to take the pledge of allegiance--no one is except for freshly minted citizens. That's a much bigger deal than standing for the national anthem, which actually is just a convention, not recognized as important in any legal way. It wasn't even a consistent tradition to play the national anthem at events of any kind until after the second world war. The supreme court case that decided that is an inspiring opinion. When I mentioned that recently a person I previously considered to be not an idiot said "Yet another ACLU assault on democracy." The opinion dates from 1940. The wikipedia entry is a good one.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette

Read that article, then click on the link in it (or below) to "Bellamy Salute".  Weird to see the photos:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

The truth will set you free.  Great article.  Ain't history fun?

I'm a veteran too. Most of the people saying "all the veterans I know"--which generally means one other person--are just putting words in someones mouth because they know their own opinion isn't worth a popcorn fart. Less than ten percent of Americans have served. In my current circle of friends there's two other veterans. I have no idea what they think.

Most importantly, all veterans and all currently serving military swear an oath "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same". The president and elected officials swear a similar oath. The Constitution of the United States says nothing about flags or songs. It specifically says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

I've always stood for the anthem, even when it wasn't cool. And I've never judged anyone else because they didn't.

Empty seats are killing the NFL, I see 3 reasons, politics entering the game (taking a knee), owner's lack of taking the home fans seriously (teams moving), and concussions (CTE). 

The antics on the field, whether political or just juvenile displays, are merely temporary distractions and only serve to maintain interest. 

The CTE issue on the other hand seems insurmountable.  Football, as we know it, is surely doomed.