Author Topic: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread  (Read 59415 times)

Blackrat

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Re: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2017, 02:22:44 AM »
Awesome thread

If I may add my 2c :-)

I'd recommend keeping the wing flat with no dihedral , firstly as it's a more stable platform and secondly it's much easier to keep your profile shape consistent along the span

Id also use a profile with a small amount of camber this is great for low speed
A profile with about 13% max thickness will be great

surfcowboy

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Re: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2017, 05:38:25 PM »
Blackrat, this is interesting. You are offering the flat foil would be more stable for learning? It's certainly easier to make. I knocked out that paipo in under an hour.

So flat foil, let's say 24" with an 8" chord.

Does the 13% refer to the distance of the max thickness from the leading edge?

Also, on the camber, should I just shape that in with a round sander maybe? Like the rear bottom 3-4"?

I'm a fan of simpler to start but I was worried about the lack of anhedral making it weird when it turns. Ias a beginner I wanted easy to learn on. 'm assuming that you are pointing out that I likely won't be turning anytime soon lol. ;) but thank you. That's worth a lot more than .02




surfcowboy

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Re: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2017, 10:21:43 AM »
Ok, picking up here from my layup thread. Trying to make it easy for folks to read the good stuff separate from my ramblings lol.

Pono, I'm going to see if I can find some Sintra or order a test piece. I'm using closed cell polyurethane sculpture foam, easily had here in film studio world for my tests now. With the really strong layup I'm not sure that pink Home Depot foam wouldn't work since it'd be hard to delam that thick of a skin but better safe, for now.

Starting with set of naca guides to cut an 8" x 24" x 1.5" flat wing to learn to cut. I'll glass anything that looks passable. I'm working on a weird template idea to get a decent rough curved shape out of a hot wire cutter that could then be sanded a little. Trying to move the home builders forward a little where I can.

If that works, I'll post up and start a mast. Probably

 If not I'll keep an eye on the tests of the Clearwater and just make something to drag behind a boat and learn on.

blackeye

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Re: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2017, 11:46:41 AM »
Just being a safety troll here.  From http://gallery.hotwirefoamfactory.com/faqs/faqs-foam/

Q: Can your tools be used to cut polyurethane foam? (sold as upholstery foam and “poly foam”)

A: Polyurethane foam should not be cut with hot wire tools. It needs a ton of heat, gives off toxic fumes, and leaves a lot of melted plastic wherever it is cut. We recommend that the polyurethane foams only be cut with a blade or saw.

PonoBill

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Re: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2017, 03:00:08 PM »
Cowboy, the only thing you should cut with hot wire is polystyrene--EPS or XPS and it's variants. Pink foam is fine. I tried to cut some polyiso (Polyisocyanurate) with a hot wire and it wouldn't cut until I got it bright red and then the fumes drove me out of the shop.

Best way to cut a long blank like a wing is with two people, each holding a handle. nail a plywood template to each end and go smoothly. Pretty easy to do with two reasonably attentive people. I tried it once with my wife and it was horrid ("Don't yell, you're going too fast, my end isn't on the template, you keep pulling down"), but almost anyone else works fine. I have a four foot bow, but I prefer the two person method.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

supuk

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Re: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2017, 03:12:28 PM »
I'll post a few pics of a hot wire wing jig tomorow, I have one of the foam factory got wires it's very basic just a 24v power supply if I remember right

jrandy

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Re: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2017, 06:18:12 PM »
I've seen jigs by the RC guys where a weight is used to pull the bow across two templates.
There was also a posting on Sway's where the blank was stood on end so the shaper could cut the rocker solo with gravity assist.
http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

surfcowboy

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Re: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2017, 08:08:17 PM »
Thx for the info guys. I built a 27-28" bow today but I assumed I'd use two folks to do it the way Pono's said with wooden templates on the ends. I'll do a test outside and see how this stuff works and if it's bad I'll bail. Not certain about what it's made of.

Need a bigger PSU for sure doing some googling now on that.

This is what I have, it's not like a surfboard blank for sure, way lighter.

https://foammart.com/p-1201-sculpture-2lb.aspx

PonoBill

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Re: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2017, 09:00:42 PM »
Outside for sure. Melting polyurethane releases hydrogen cyanide and carbon monoxide.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

surfcowboy

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Re: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2017, 09:04:21 PM »
Why am I so sleepy out here in the garage?

surfcowboy

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Re: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread
« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2017, 02:05:45 PM »
Foil profiles and size. I'm going big and thick (no comments there...)

8" chord and about 1.5" thick. Here are some options. The first is a straight by the book Clark-YM from airfoils site that is 1 1/4" (1.25") thick.

I'm favoring B which is that one blown up to 1.5 with the thickest part moved slightly forward. C is also 1.5" but with a little concave in the back (which I don't really want to shape into anything but a flat foil due to complexity.

Thoughts on B? as a starting point?

surfcowboy

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Re: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2017, 04:51:22 PM »
Forgot my attachment!

surfcowboy

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Re: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread
« Reply #57 on: October 26, 2017, 09:09:10 PM »
B is the winner. Voting has closed lol.

Made templates tonight and a sanding/shaping jig that, if it works, I'll post up pics of. Hot Wire seemed too much hassle to get right so I used the principle, a jig that guides the wire, to make a sanding jig that guides a 3' long flat sanding board with 1' of aggressive sandpaper (50 grit?) in the center. You can slide the sandpaper back and forth to cover the 24" span without either side coming off of the jig. The foil templates make up the sides and guide the sanding board.

If it doesn't work, it'll make a good Hotwire guide... or firewood.

Next up, design mast templates and layup. That should be interesting too.

supuk

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Re: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread
« Reply #58 on: October 27, 2017, 02:37:15 AM »
Sorry I forgot to post the picture of the hot wire  jig, this way is great for cutting multiples or if you want accurate cuts but you can just nail them straight to the blank. If you put markets on each template at 1/4 1/2 3/4 it helps judge your speed at ether end and it's a lot easier with two people. You can set up a pivoting arm that pulls everything through at the right speed but they can be a bitch to get right and no point for quick 1 off things. For your hot wire just use some nicrome wire and a 12v car or bike battery and resistor if you need to adjust the temp

surfcowboy

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Re: Cowboy Foil Experiment Thread
« Reply #59 on: October 27, 2017, 08:13:06 PM »
Thx man, this rig looks almost like what I made. I still might cut it then. Gonna try this sanding thing once and see what it looks like but I do have the cutter built so maybe I should try. I have an old motorcycle battery charger that I don't mind blowing up that I bet would power a cut too.

Side question, did your wife also know, like mine, that she'd be called upon to help with random projects? Mine has sprad resin, pulled cloth and all sorts of surf-related stuff. Now looks like she'll be pulling a wire cutter too.

 


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