Author Topic: What size paddle?  (Read 5587 times)

safetyboy

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What size paddle?
« on: August 17, 2017, 06:28:06 PM »
I'm looking to upgrade my paddle soon.  On my current paddle, if I pull easy, it seems right.  But when I try to paddle hard, with power, it feels like I get a lot of water "spilling" off the sides of the paddle and thus losing efficiency.  So I feel like I need a bigger paddle.

But it seems like most of the racing paddles are actually smaller than the "rec" paddles.  So maybe it's my paddling technique?

Is there a good rule of thumb for paddle size, or is it just personal preference, try a bunch out and see what works for you?

- Thanks, Kevin

Area 10

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Re: What size paddle?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2017, 06:38:47 PM »
It's mostly technique. Try checking out Larry Cain's instruction on getting a good "catch". Setting the blade in the water without taking air with it is key. It's harder than you'd think. But makes a huge difference.

Quickblade have a useful chart on their website that give guidance for blade area by weight.

But as you get better you can go smaller than they recommend, and still not have the blade slip.

Bean

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Re: What size paddle?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2017, 07:34:19 PM »
+1 good summary A10

Windwarrior

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Re: What size paddle?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2017, 07:36:11 PM »
I'm looking to upgrade my paddle soon.  On my current paddle, if I pull easy, it seems right.  But when I try to paddle hard, with power, it feels like I get a lot of water "spilling" off the sides of the paddle and thus losing efficiency.  So I feel like I need a bigger paddle.

But it seems like most of the racing paddles are actually smaller than the "rec" paddles.  So maybe it's my paddling technique?

Is there a good rule of thumb for paddle size, or is it just personal preference, try a bunch out and see what works for you?

- Thanks, Kevin

There's a formula that Area 10 mentioned on my thread looking for a good paddle. It's what I used to figure out blade size.
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hbsteve

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Re: What size paddle?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2017, 08:31:08 PM »
A while back, one of the videos showed the advantages of slower stroke and quick recovery.  For the most part, the board will only go so fast.  A quick recovery stops the board from slowing down as much.  The video was by John Puakea.

Eagle

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Re: What size paddle?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2017, 10:22:34 PM »
"So maybe it's my paddling technique?"

Yeah maybe.  We have 3 different sizes and cannot pull any at full power for long using a deep clean catch.  Is impossible.  You will pull your arms out of your socket if done right.  But with just a very slight crap technique -> even the 116 pulls easy.  So there you go.  Have to let it slip at my skill power and endurance level.

If you intend to upgrade would recommend you get a high quality carbon paddle.  At first our puny 67 was too "easy" but not any more.  The 78 is pretty good with a slower cadence and 116 good for slow cadence distance.  Or perfect for short high intensity sprints or DW.  So lots of variety and no real set rules.  But would get your technique down pat before switching up much.  Took me like 5 years and am still improving bit by bit each time out.

It feels for me like pulling my paddle in wet concrete to near set concrete depending on timing and crank power.  Less power and some slip wet concrete.  High snap power near set concrete.  The blade generally should not slip much at all according to some.  But am no expert.  This is just what works for me.

CB used a 79 and FW used a 74 with the Bolt.  They are current top shelf racers with very top technique.  Would not be able to keep up to them for even a minute.  They are that good.
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SG50SUP

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Re: What size paddle?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2017, 11:27:55 PM »
Mostly comes down to paddle technique no matter the paddle size. Johnny Puakea shared and explained on the Standup Paddle The World Radio Show few weeks ago which is priceless information.

Listen on iTunes here:
https://itunes.apple.com/nl/podcast/podcasts-stand-up-paddle-the-world-radio/id1082047105?l=en&mt=2&i=1000384409785

Or here from the web:
https://player.fm/series/podcasts-stand-up-paddle-the-world-radio/john-puakeaan-outrigger-legend-tells-how-to-paddle-faster


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Area 10

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Re: What size paddle?
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2017, 05:59:21 AM »
That Johnny Puakea interview is really excellent. Optimising your stroke in the way he suggests requires, I find, a lot of concentration, and seems to change the ratio between aerobic and non-aerobic work you are doing.

Eagle

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Re: What size paddle?
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2017, 08:34:33 AM »
SG50 good find.  Yeah what JP says about mud and cement and pain -> can 100% relate to that.  Spot on.  But only animals like Danny and Travis etc can pull sustained mile after mile.  Full punishment beast mode yes.  But way too much for me.  Am perfectly content to cheat and slip a bit in exchange for some fun.  Haha!  Way too old to keep that up for any length of time.  Simply too much pain and suffering.
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PonoBill

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Re: What size paddle?
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2017, 09:37:48 AM »
I'm looking to upgrade my paddle soon.  On my current paddle, if I pull easy, it seems right.  But when I try to paddle hard, with power, it feels like I get a lot of water "spilling" off the sides of the paddle and thus losing efficiency.  So I feel like I need a bigger paddle.

But it seems like most of the racing paddles are actually smaller than the "rec" paddles.  So maybe it's my paddling technique?

Is there a good rule of thumb for paddle size, or is it just personal preference, try a bunch out and see what works for you?

- Thanks, Kevin

It's ALL technique. I can easily pull a 130 paddle if I don't set the catch--water just flows around it into the big air pocket in the back. If I set the catch and have no air on the back then my 84 Konihi is too much blade. Stuck in concrete. Part of it is the Konihi wings, which help much more with the catch if your technique is good, but most of it is just doing what Dave K and Johnny P recommend. Push the blade into the water like you're putting an envelope in a mail slot, push down on the handle more than you pull with your lower hand. Even hesitate for a few microseconds to bleed off the little remaining air. If there is no air on the back of the blade, the incompressible water resists slip. The difference is HUGE.

When you're doing it right, you can paddle forever at a good speed. If your blade is slipping, most of your effort is wasted in just stirring the water. If there's an OC6 club near you, join and take their clinics. Paddling with focus on doing exactly what the paddler two seats in front of you is doing will make you a better paddler in the shortest time. Otherwise, watch the videos and practice, but realize that it will take at least a year to gain good technique. Doesn't seem like paddling is that complicated, but I think it makes a good tennis or golf swing look like something intuitive.
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safetyboy

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Re: What size paddle?
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2017, 12:34:41 PM »
Quote
It's ALL technique.

Interesting.. is that why SUP paddles have a forward angle to them, so that it's easier to "catch" properly?

Quote
If your blade is slipping, most of your effort is wasted in just stirring the water.

Yes, that's exactly what it feels like - stirring the water.  I'll have to try this out tomorrow and see if I can feel the difference.  Thanks for the tip.

- Kevin

Area 10

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Re: What size paddle?
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2017, 12:59:48 PM »
Here ya go:

http://larrycain.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/big-picture-approach-to-technique-part.html?m=1

Unfortunately, getting a good "catch" isn't something that you can't do one minute, and then after being told how to do it, can instantly do the next. It takes thousands and thousands of strokes to perfect. And even when you do know how to do it, you'll still lose concentration and fail to do it on some strokes. But practice makes perfect... eventually. Good luck!

Eagle

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Re: What size paddle?
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2017, 03:47:17 PM »
If you are "stirring the water" -> yeah that is a big problem.  Would get some good consistent GPS data so you can track your progress.

Even tho for surfski -> OC has good info about certain aspects of technique that can be cross applied to SUP.  Would recommend paddlers hop on a surfski and paddle around for a bit.  It should quickly elucidate how crappy your technique is and how much you can improve.  Kinda like starting all over again.  Initially did not like the feel a couple of years ago -> but seems ok now for some weird reason.  Still my pref is SUP by a longshot.

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baddog

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Re: What size paddle?
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2017, 05:51:40 PM »
Sure technique matters, but so does the paddle.  You don't give your paddle size, your stats or experience, so there's not much to go on.  99% of paddlers are not Kalama or Puakea, so much of what they have to offer sometime only applies to an elite level.  My first paddle may have been the best available at the time, but as efficient as it may have been, it also wasn't very forgiving.  That goes double for Puakea's paddles which have a very low blade/shaft angle and wander like crazy unless you have fabulous technique.  They are strictly not for the average paddler.

Point is, the size, shape and design of the paddle can make a huge difference.  The trend is smaller for sure and even Kalama is no longer promoting the monster blades he once held dear.  You need to get out there and just try them.  Take a paddling clinic, try some paddles and learn for yourself.  The easiest and quickest thing you can do is to video tape yourself paddling.  Then compare it up with paddling videos.  You'll be amazed how quick it is to pick up faults when you get to see yourself in action.

Area 10

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Re: What size paddle?
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2017, 06:45:19 PM »
The Quickblade V-Drives make it pretty easy to get a good catch. Which is probably why they are so popular amongst elite paddlers. It's just a shame they aren't cheaper... although the vector net versions are a bit more reasonable, price-wise.

 


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