Author Topic: Recommend a Race Fin  (Read 6542 times)

Twitchy

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Recommend a Race Fin
« on: July 08, 2014, 07:18:51 PM »
So I expanded my quiver to add a used Javelin MC 14'.  On my 12'6" Javelin I used either the stock dagger style fin or the FCS Spitfire.  I honestly couldn't tell the difference between the two.  I also tried the stock dagger and Spitfire on the 14' with seemingly little difference. 

I generally get 8-12 strokes per side before switching unless I'm dealing with side chop/wind. 

I paddle mostly in the ocean with both boards (but I do some inland shallow areas too), so I am always dealing with side chop/wind.  Stability isn't an issue with either board. 

I would like some recommendations for a smaller/less tall fin.

So far I've looked at the Danny Ching, Futures Keel and JB Keel, and have been looking at the Larry Allison line.  While I don't think I need a weed fin for kelp, I did experience a drogue chute in the form of seagrass last week.  This was 4 hours away from where I normally paddle and is definitely not normal in my area. 

What say you experts of SUPing? ;D 

I'm tapped out at 5.2mph average speed in my normal conditions which generally mean some form of headwind/chop there and some form of tailwind/chop on the return trip.  I want to go faster, will a small fin help with it?

FYI, I have been doing GPS time trials with a QB V-Drive 91 and Kanaha AC 100.  Both gave me the same average speed with the higher perceived effort going towards the Kanaha.   
14' Niash Javelin MC
9'6" JL B&B
9'2" NSP Cocomat-beater board
7'4" Starboard Pro

Larry Allison

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Re: Recommend a Race Fin
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2014, 10:34:14 PM »
In choppy conditions, the Ninja would be the fin of choice. Even tho the Ninja is 10.50 inches the structure make up and flex properties makes this fin feel like a 8" dolphin fin.


In flat water the Gladiator Pro would be the fin of choice. 
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 11:08:43 PM by ProBox-Larry »
Allison Race Fins

Area 10

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Re: Recommend a Race Fin
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2014, 10:39:12 PM »
You don't want a fin with too much rake or base if you are coping with lots of side wind and side chop. So although I like the Ching fin and the Futures Keel for flatwater, I don't use them in the sea.

Glowmaster

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Re: Recommend a Race Fin
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2014, 04:40:53 AM »
Makani Fins Kawa.   My testing shows higher speeds than with the Gladiator Hybrid.

Rideordie

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Re: Recommend a Race Fin
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2014, 05:00:01 AM »
Used a Ninja on my 14 Javelin and loved it.  Now using Ninja on my SIC x14 SCC.  Awesome stabilty and tracking in side wind and chop = more speed.  Larry KNOWS fins.  Listen to his advice and you won't go wrong.   
2021 SIC RS 14 x 24.5
Naish Glide 14 (v2)
SIC X-14 SCC  
KeNalu Konihi 95 xTuf(s)
KeNalu Mana 90 100 Flex

Larry Allison

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Re: Recommend a Race Fin
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2014, 08:18:30 AM »
Makani Fins Kawa.   My testing shows higher speeds than with the Gladiator Hybrid.

Glowmaster, It is unfortunate that people can not get their facts straight! The reason for your comment and inaccurate results of the Gladiator Hybrid is that you were comparing a Gladiator Hybrid to a less volume fin of Makani. Instead of using a Gladiator Pro! Naturally when you are over finned the board will be slower than having a proper fin. Testing should be apples to apples, not apples to grapes!


Quote from Rob Rojas, June 6, 2014:

I'm extremely pleased and excited to be teaming up with Casey Gotcher and Larry W. Allison, Sup Race Fins. While racing with this fin a couple of weeks ago on my Riviera Paddlesurf Unlimited SUP, "Gnarwahl" in the Oneill Tahoe Series race #1 at Donner Lake, I held the fastest pace I have ever done in flat water, with my fastest mile being an 8 min, 39 second mile.

Allison Race Fins

Larry Allison

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Re: Recommend a Race Fin
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2014, 09:07:58 AM »
Used a Ninja on my 14 Javelin and loved it.  Now using Ninja on my SIC x14 SCC.  Awesome stabilty and tracking in side wind and chop = more speed.  Larry KNOWS fins.  Listen to his advice and you won't go wrong.

Thank you for the Kind words my friend. Mahalo, Larry
Allison Race Fins

Chilly

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Re: Recommend a Race Fin
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2014, 11:48:07 AM »
Twitchy, you’re going pretty fast now. I’m not sure a smaller fin will make you go faster. It may have less drag, but you may be changing sides more often and that will slow you down.
I like the Curtis fins from Fins unlimited. It does the job and the quality is excellent. I use the Seagrass model.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 12:07:27 PM by Chilly »
NSP 2016 12'6 Surf Race Pro

Twitchy

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Re: Recommend a Race Fin
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2014, 12:36:26 PM »
Whelp, the Danny Ching is too long-found it and a few others locally this morning and they're all too long.  The fin box on the MC is about 7" long, so that seems to be a limiting factor for me. 

Larry, will the Ninja and G-Pro fir in a 7" fin box?  And which site is the best to get them from if they do?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 12:42:38 PM by Twitchy »
14' Niash Javelin MC
9'6" JL B&B
9'2" NSP Cocomat-beater board
7'4" Starboard Pro

caseyg

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Re: Recommend a Race Fin
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2014, 02:09:54 PM »
I think Larry makes a good point, as does Chilly.  If you want less drag, the Gladiator Pro is ideal, especially for people on 14' boards, in relatively calm conditions, or races with lots of buoy turns.  The Alternative discussed, was a Hybrid.  With the Hybrid, it is a bigger fin, so there is a little bit more drag, so if you are only comparing top speeds, that plays into the equation.  That does not however mean it is a slower fin.  If you bump from 5-6 strokes per side, to 10-12 strokes per side, you keep your blade in the water more often, doing what it is supposed to do, as opposed to transitioning more often.  The other results is less yawing, meaning you are covering less distance, than with some of the smaller fins mentioned above.  Both are great options.  In the end, you need to decide what your priority is, whether it be tracking, stability, top speed, maneuverability, etc.  There isn't one right answer here.  Take a look at this post to get some more details on some of the variables worth considering, when buying a race fin.

http://www.supracefins.com/advice/how-to-choose-a-race-fin/

Casey

Glowmaster

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Re: Recommend a Race Fin
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2014, 03:35:45 PM »
Larry,

I admire the contributions you have made over the years to both windsurfing and paddle board fins.

I am just an average guy with no commercial angle to SUP.  I have a very good GPS and the skills to analyze the tracks. I bought a Gladiator hybrid with my own cash, because I heard it was state of the art and I wanted to compare it to what I was testing.

You are right the Hybrid is more area than the Kawa I tested.  Apples to oranges. But the design of the Makani fin used apples/apples testing with 2 fins of the exact same outline, just with a modified foil.  The modified foil was noticeably and measurably faster.

It measured a little faster than the Hybrid but area does cloud the issue. 

I again offer, in the interest of making everybody faster, the offsets for the foil we used on the Kawa in exchange for a 2 test fins with that foil. One for the Naval architect , Craig Loomes that suggested it, and one for me. Then I can continue to compare foils with your unique outlines. Maybe make a third for Rojas.

I wonder what a paddler like Mr Rojas might  be able to do in the mile with a lower drag foil on one of your unique fins.

Keep up the good work.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 03:38:14 PM by Glowmaster »

Twitchy

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Re: Recommend a Race Fin
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2014, 06:49:47 PM »
All the LA fin talk is pointless to me at this point for my Javelin MC.  It has a 7" fin box, which pretty much negates the use of a majority of fins, aside from some of the DW fins. 

I may end up purchasing a G-Pro for my Javelin 12'6" for flat water and either sticking with the stock Naish fin or Ninja for open water work. 

I was really hoping to find 2 fins to fit my Javelin MC for an upcoming race.  We have a .5 mile sprint followed by a 4 mile BOP style course (both in flat water) and the next day we have a 7 mile ocean course. 

I'm still holding out hope for LA to find a prototype of the G-Pro and Ninja that can fit a 7" fin box ;D
14' Niash Javelin MC
9'6" JL B&B
9'2" NSP Cocomat-beater board
7'4" Starboard Pro

Larry Allison

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Re: Recommend a Race Fin
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2014, 07:11:42 PM »
All the LA fin talk is pointless to me at this point for my Javelin MC.  It has a 7" fin box, which pretty much negates the use of a majority of fins, aside from some of the DW fins. 

I may end up purchasing a G-Pro for my Javelin 12'6" for flat water and either sticking with the stock Naish fin or Ninja for open water work. 

I was really hoping to find 2 fins to fit my Javelin MC for an upcoming race.  We have a .5 mile sprint followed by a 4 mile BOP style course (both in flat water) and the next day we have a 7 mile ocean course. 

I'm still holding out hope for LA to find a prototype of the G-Pro and Ninja that can fit a 7" fin box ;D

 Twitchy,
Not a problem, here's a pic from my Blog in 2009 before these marketing companies started to look at the standup market I was aready designing and testing. These designs were designed to fit your 7"box without loosing the performance of a larger fin for stability.

http://standupfinsbylarryallison.blogspot.com/2009/12/look-at-some-of-unique-fins-from-fibre.html
Allison Race Fins

Larry Allison

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Re: Recommend a Race Fin
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2014, 07:20:18 PM »
Twitchy, Here is the look at the Ninja with my special locking attachment to fit your 7" fin box, which alot of overseas companies used early on in late 2008 and 2009, till 2012 before changing to the 10" fin box. Mahalo my friend, Larry
Allison Race Fins

 


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